Today we broke Physics

This is a discussion on Today we broke Physics within the Science & Technology forums, part of the The Pub category; Take it with a block of salt: Assoceated Press: Scientists break the speed of light Scientists at the world's largest physics lab said Thursday they ...

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    Hello there. GSG-9's Avatar
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    Today we broke Physics

    Take it with a block of salt:

    Assoceated Press: Scientists break the speed of light
    Scientists at the world's largest physics lab said Thursday they have clocked neutrinos traveling faster than light. That's something that according to Einstein's 1905 special theory of relativity - the famous E (equals) mc2 equation - just doesn't happen.

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    TR Blogger zanzabar's Avatar
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    2 things wrong with how this was reported,

    1) the margin of error is larger than the difference, and that has happened before but there is no way for us to tell that something went FTL.

    2) E=mc^2 governs 4 dimensional travel (3 space and 1 time, making space time), it dose not mean that using multi dimensional travel is imposable or limited to the same speed when viewed on one plane on space time. subatomic particles move erratically and dont necessarily move in 3 denominational space or as matter. and it dose not mean that things cannot go faster than light, it means that they cannot exert energy over the acceleration of light times their mass, so if a particle is emitted from a high speed particle something strange could happen and thats what they are doing.
    Last edited by zanzabar; 09-22-2011 at 03:05 PM.
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    Do these theories include consideration of the "Warp" factors, specifically 1 through 10?




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    TR Staff Neuromancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zanzabar View Post
    2 things wrong with how this was reported,

    1) the margin of error is larger than the difference, and that has happened before but there is no way for us to tell that something went FTL.

    2) E=mc^2 governs 4 dimensional travel (3 space and 1 time, making space time), it dose not mean that using multi dimensional travel is imposable or limited to the same speed when viewed on one plane on space time. subatomic particles move erratically and dont necessarily move in 3 denominational space or as matter. and it dose not mean that things cannot go faster than light, it means that they cannot exert energy over the acceleration of light times their mass, so if a particle is emitted from a high speed particle something strange could happen and thats what they are doing.
    Wiki reports the difference at 60 ns with a 10ns margin of error.


    Seems to me the theory of relativity does not preclude particles from traveling that fast, but that only to the particle it would not seem faster. To an outside observer it would be faster to the particle itself it would only be light speed. Just that time would be slower, so the effective speed was faster.

    Wiki had a good example. Shine a laser beam on a distant object, (millions of miles away) then move it across the surface of said planet or celestial body. To us, the dot on that planet would move FTL. But it would not be, only relative to us.

    Maybe I have that backwards.
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    Hello there. GSG-9's Avatar
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    Something interesting said in another conversation about this (just a comment, not fact and it still does not agree with e=mc^2) was the theory of relativity does not exclude neutrinos from going faster than the speed of light, but from accelerating past the speed of light. That does not help the issue at all, but I thought it was an interesting way of looking at it.

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    TR Staff Neuromancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSG-9 View Post
    Something interesting said in another conversation about this (just a comment, not fact and it still does not agree with e=mc^2) was the theory of relativity does not exclude neutrinos from going faster than the speed of light, but from accelerating past the speed of light. That does not help the issue at all, but I thought it was an interesting way of looking at it.
    Yeah I read that. Actually it was not neutrinos, but any small particle IIRC. Any particle travelling at the speed of light that gives off particles can surpass "c"

    Which as a realist/pragmatist. Goes back to the age old question. If you drive you car at the speed of light and turn on the headlights...

    I find it humorous that instead of just admitting that FTL is possible, mathematicians go to incredible lengths (including new maths) to prove that while it is possible it does not violate that theory. Everyone is so scared of Einstein. Jeez man, the guy is dead. It is okay to correct him...

    No one seems to point out what we have learned about gravity, more importantly what we have yet to learn about it. Quantuum mechanics believes it is a non-mass particle foam that exists in all things. Some call it dark matter some say dark matter is something different, that the empty void of space is full of matter.

    TBH, I find it ironic that the universe is so similar to a biological system, (solar systems being atoms, galaxies being molecules) the belief there are large expanses of nothing, would be akin to calling us ghosts.

    then again, science is the new religion and finding people that believe one way or another is simple. the problem is it HAS become the new religion and people cling to defeated theories or accept new incorrect ones as facts. when they are only ideas. Not facts.

    that is the major problem with "defeating false gods" like for instance the stargate storyline. Science is king, but when it becomes a religion on its own, it is just as bad.

    Sci-Fi is great at pointing out the fallacies of man. Stargate as poorly written and acted as it was, remains one of my favorites. (I mean really, MacGyver as a lead role? Funny as he is, the biography of the character is not him at all)


    EDIT: I have no problem with being wrong. And when it come to theoretical maths have no clue when I am. I have always been better at useful math like spatial geometry. Pretty good at it, from testing, to fighting and driving a car. Music is even math, and while I am no artist, picking up an instrument I can "jam" a little. Not like someone with training of course (beyond the liberal arts). And brings us to liberal arts degrees, being the best thing for people. So lame we have these concentrated curriculum that program people to think a single way.
    Last edited by Neuromancer; 09-23-2011 at 11:24 PM.
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    I may get slapped for saying it but I prefer Atlantas to SG-1, and I dislike Universe the most.

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    TR Staff Neuromancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSG-9 View Post
    I may get slapped for saying it but I prefer Atlantas to SG-1, and I dislike Universe the most.
    LOL Atlantis grew on me, SG-1 still better, and SGU might as well have been called "going to other planets" *10 cookie points if you can name the character that said that* while it was based on the stargate franchise they did not stick to the format that made the other show popular.

    I am all for serial television in Sci-fi, but it will not be popular unless it is amazing from the start. (which is kinda contradictory) I dislike the "previously on LOST, err I mean SGU" preceding each episode. But Xfiles really did it right. Have an underlying plot, but do individual episodes as well.

    When I still had most of the series on my HTPC I was considering breaking xfiles up into storyline vs episodes. But never did.


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    Last edited by Neuromancer; 09-26-2011 at 02:14 PM.
    Beer drinking is like finger painting. When you are young, you do not care what you stick your fingers into as long as you got to do it. When you are older, eww Heineken? I really want a beer that comes from the factory skunked?


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    Terminator Administrator Archer's Avatar
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    Well I wanted to see the ending of SGU. I wanted them to find the source. I will admit it did suck at times though.
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    Einstein would find it facinating.. Not only that but after the Nuclear fiasco He probably came up with lots more ideas and theory's that he chose not to share with the world at large. Somethings are better left Unsaid.. and unknown.. Its like chimp's with dynamite.
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    TR Staff Neuromancer's Avatar
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    Chimps/chumps. I agree.

    "I am become death, the destroyer of worlds"

    By and large I think most scientists are not so altruistic. the fact he quoted a hindu text. references back to my post I deleted about liberal arts being important to education, nay, mankind at large. In the absence of god, a liberal education is paramount.

    I know you Big D are a religious man (*1 cookie points for you*) I am not. I respect it though, big props for any spiritual people. I would not want to live in a society based purely on the principles of mathematical function. Likewise I do not want to live in a society bereft of those principles either.

    Little buddhist but... "All things in moderation"

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    Last edited by Neuromancer; 09-26-2011 at 03:31 PM.
    Beer drinking is like finger painting. When you are young, you do not care what you stick your fingers into as long as you got to do it. When you are older, eww Heineken? I really want a beer that comes from the factory skunked?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post
    Yeah I read that. Actually it was not neutrinos, but any small particle IIRC. Any particle travelling at the speed of light that gives off particles can surpass "c"

    Which as a realist/pragmatist. Goes back to the age old question. If you drive you car at the speed of light and turn on the headlights...

    I find it humorous that instead of just admitting that FTL is possible, mathematicians go to incredible lengths (including new maths) to prove that while it is possible it does not violate that theory. Everyone is so scared of Einstein. Jeez man, the guy is dead. It is okay to correct him...

    No one seems to point out what we have learned about gravity, more importantly what we have yet to learn about it. Quantuum mechanics believes it is a non-mass particle foam that exists in all things. Some call it dark matter some say dark matter is something different, that the empty void of space is full of matter.

    TBH, I find it ironic that the universe is so similar to a biological system, (solar systems being atoms, galaxies being molecules) the belief there are large expanses of nothing, would be akin to calling us ghosts.

    then again, science is the new religion and finding people that believe one way or another is simple. the problem is it HAS become the new religion and people cling to defeated theories or accept new incorrect ones as facts. when they are only ideas. Not facts.

    that is the major problem with "defeating false gods" like for instance the stargate storyline. Science is king, but when it becomes a religion on its own, it is just as bad.

    Sci-Fi is great at pointing out the fallacies of man. Stargate as poorly written and acted as it was, remains one of my favorites. (I mean really, MacGyver as a lead role? Funny as he is, the biography of the character is not him at all)


    EDIT: I have no problem with being wrong. And when it come to theoretical maths have no clue when I am. I have always been better at useful math like spatial geometry. Pretty good at it, from testing, to fighting and driving a car. Music is even math, and while I am no artist, picking up an instrument I can "jam" a little. Not like someone with training of course (beyond the liberal arts). And brings us to liberal arts degrees, being the best thing for people. So lame we have these concentrated curriculum that program people to think a single way.
    Good post
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  13. #13
    TR Staff Neuromancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miahallen View Post
    Good post
    Thanks man. lol (just saying agreeing with me might mark you as crazy too )
    Beer drinking is like finger painting. When you are young, you do not care what you stick your fingers into as long as you got to do it. When you are older, eww Heineken? I really want a beer that comes from the factory skunked?


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    Hello there. GSG-9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post
    Thanks man. lol (just saying agreeing with me might mark you as crazy too )
    I don't know, if we can't be crazy in the modern age what do we have going for us? Let me tell ya I thought we would have portable railguns by now.

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    Terminator Administrator Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSG-9 View Post
    I don't know, if we can't be crazy in the modern age what do we have going for us? Let me tell ya I thought we would have portable railguns by now.
    We do UT anyone?
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